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#476 2010-01-22 22:38:50

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

The Haiti telethon is on tv. The songs are wonderful. I made a couple donations so far. I'll figure out if I can give more.
     F is tutoring an undergraduate in engineering math over in the office area. F has many years teaching experience in the area of math and science. He is known by students as the "black genius." This two hour tutoring session has expanded into five so far. This student is really into this because it is saving his mathematics neck.
    The fact that F hasn't already worked for many years is a tribute to the HR system in this country. Indeed it is a tribute that exacts all it can. The system ought to stand and take a bow for this one. Barbarism is often well dressed. So, perhaps they can get a pass for style. He doesn't look like what most people would think of as a professor of engineering. Perhaps this is what HR's problem is. Still, I figure front line HR employees are just deploying amoral corporate policy not of their making.
    He has thoroughly solved the most public and propaganda soaked math problem in existence. I will enjoy it all vastly when the poop hits the fan. May HR melt like the Wicked Witch of the West in the Wizard of Oz. I'm meeeeeeltiiiing! Melt away.

Last edited by Platonicmonic (2010-01-24 21:45:37)

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#477 2010-01-27 00:49:41

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

After reading the Walking the Sea blog, I say I think God is personal and impersonal. And further, I think that this apparent contradiction is likely pretty accurate with reality as a reference.
     I figure God is a really really big boy. I would tend to expect God is not like a man with an infantile personality, or a love starved child. The Bible seems to portray God in these unflattering terms. I think the
biblical writers could be wrong, or perhaps were struggling to find a path, and swerving madly in the process.
     My relations with my fellow humans are often cruddy and too infrequent. The idea that I would have cruddy relations with people but a fine relationship with God seems like an incongruous and wigged out sort of notion were I to be thinking this way. The crud factor did not seem to slow down the religionists I grew up with.
     I am more like the angry red eyes in the back of a dark cave than I am a poet and singer of God's glories.
I figure that if I don't conceive of God as -a priori- a self contradiction to be finessed as well as possible, I'll have to think of God as a sadistic monster.

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#478 2010-01-28 23:11:41

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

Today has been an okay day. A good day would have been better. One of these days will be the one where I get a permanent job, insofar as anything is permanent.
      Yeah I am pretty blue collar in more ways than a Magee is supposed to be. I should expect that I'm in violaton of rules of decorum more often than I know. An elevated perception of the world I don't aspire to all that much. I say higher is not always better. I am a lot like my dad, who did not seek elevation and the higher life all that much.
      I think God is in the dirt with us humans. I say angel wings aren't for this realm.

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#479 2010-01-29 14:01:13

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

In the book "Iron John," Robert Bly speaks of the first born boy who takes on adult feelings too soon. He walks with "his feet too close to the ground." High flying is not something such men do.
      People often interpret God or what is good according to their own inclinations. I know about this and I figure psychologists that read my stuff are reading me like a book.
      It can be a comic tragedy when people do not realize that their own inclinations play a large role in what they expect "the good" to be. Christian fundamentalists have this blind spot, and Evangelical institutions try to hide this reality from their flocks.

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#480 2010-01-29 21:16:15

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

I get to hear many stories of the Congo and points beyond. There aren't too many things more entertaining than stories of Africa. Never could I have imagined that I'd get to hear stuff like this.

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#481 2010-02-01 12:27:12

staceyfoose
Member
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 7

Re: Iconoclastery

Tim - I really like, "I think God is in the dirt with us humans."     smile

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#482 2010-02-01 20:51:04

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

I have a "New King James" Bible on my bed. It is an edition with many bells and whistles. It isn't quite altered enough to be the full equivalent of a copy of John Calvin's "Institutes," but it is an edition that isn't meant to be understood as what it is, a collection of stories, but is constructed as a lexicon of traditional Christian metaphysics. Still, tell me the story of Jesus, it's there beneath the gingerbread.

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#483 2010-02-01 22:17:34

tvailp
Member
Registered: 2005-08-19
Posts: 181

Re: Iconoclastery

Tim --

I think you've just hit the nail on the head!  I think we can find good theology in the Bible -- but it's not a logical, metaphysical system -- it's what they are calling "narrative theology" -- the story of Jesus -- the story of people wrestling -- in the dirt -- with God -- the all-too-human attempt of people to tell the story of God in history.  The arguments of people with one another about what is truly God's story -- and maybe even making a bit of progress, over the centuries, until it finally breaks through in the story of that strange, disturbing rabbi from Galilee.
                  Vail

Last edited by tvailp (2010-02-01 22:18:11)

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#484 2010-02-12 20:30:32

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

I have been at least skimming wikipedia articles on the subject of narrative theology. My African friend nearly always speaks in the narrative form. I by contrast can barely tell a story, but I am quite capable in the area of dialog. Mr African can do dialog, but he prefers narrative. He keeps the UFO's corralled by making everything into a humorous story that goes on for weeks. The UFO's are his Indian study partners.

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#485 2010-02-16 19:36:45

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

Cspan2 just completed a live broadcast of a discussion on Adam Smith and the Wealth of Nations book, written in the middle of the 1700's. It appears that the present day Republican Party's political appropriation of Smith's book is mostly a work of oversimplification and abuse of the party rank-and-file's credulity.
    I think that the Democrats may truthfully say they are morally superior to the Republicans, yet such talk doesn't mean much given the low bar the Republicans have set. Politics is ugly many times and seems to specialize in the abuse of good faith.
     By contrast, I've got to say that what I heard the philosophers say about Adam Smith and his work was beautiful and encouraging. Much seems to come down to the golden rule that says don't do to others what you don't want done to you. Smith was a moral philosopher as well as an economist. I like it a lot.

Last edited by Platonicmonic (2010-02-17 18:20:57)

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#486 2010-02-19 23:56:09

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

Even though I think that the Republicans and their alter ego the Democrats in congress are bought and paid for by military contractors, medical insurance companies, and such, I think there are even worse people in the background. An economist on cspan said that the WTO and the World Bank are institutions that work furiously to prevent banks, hedge funds, and the lot from ever experiencing regulation. Transnational corporations mean to drain the wealth of the planet into their poskets, and what doesn't make it to their pockets is to go down the rabbit hole. So far as I know it has nearly always been thus since the first financial record, whenever that was.
Our nation's founding fathers tried to create a country that was not to be primarily characterized by cheating, thieving, and thuggery. Perhaps a check here and a balance there was the idea.
     I got a temporary machine shop job that starts Tuesday. It sounds like a good deal, professional work atmosphere, and familiar work. The job will last two or three weeks. This is a mighty fine development. I mean to go to PCC for Mastercam software classes. This temporary job will help me make it to school.
     I am hoping that the gloom and doom economic prognosticators are wrong, and an economic recovery will happen.

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#487 2010-02-22 21:05:05

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

Making rent will be a challenge. I won't get my first paycheck on my new job for a while (March 5.) Figuring out a budget even for the next two weeks is someting I don't do readily. I'm pretty good at geometry because it's my occupation. Figuring out income and outgo that is changing on me is more of a challenge.
     This new job likely will be only temporary as indicated, two or three weeks. The start date on this job has been moved back one day so far. The parts I am to work on have not yet arrived at the employer. This kind of thing can be a little unnerving, but I am in ongoing contact with my placement agency. That the parts were late is not exactly a great surprise. I will hear news after lunchtime tomorrow.

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#488 2010-02-25 20:42:36

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

I got the temporary job, and the first day was today. The day went well. Still, I feel freaked out because jobs are so scarce, and I'm amazed I got one, even a temporary one. It is supposed to last two or three weeks. I hope it goes longer.

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#489 2010-02-26 20:27:22

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

The second day on the job was okay as well. I have lots of things to study in preparation for this next week's work. Machine shop is stereotypically a "manual trade." Real machine shop normally requires a significant and ever expanding fund of knowledge.

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#490 2010-02-27 18:35:45

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

I have two work related books that I love. They are titled "Shop Class as Soulcraft," and "In Praise of Hard Industries." This new temp job I have reminds of why I ever wanted to take shop classes in the first place. Hostile work environments can discourage even the most determined would-be workers.
     I have been thinking about the way I feel about the Evangelical Friends, largely my relatives. My feelings about Evangelical anything are hostile at best. I have a tough time feeling okay about my relatives because I oppose their form of religion/society and subculture. Their insularity alone is morally questionable, and things only go downhill from there. I was trying to be generous to a relative and profess my ignorance of the good things Evangelical Friends do. Yet I am angry and grief stricken. I value Childhood's End. Evangelical society won't go there now or ever. I can only watch with stunned and incredulous eyes.
     The Evangelical Friends have way worn out their welcome at the static latch where they are established. A period of dynamism would be required to get to the next level. Such a period of dynamism will not happen for any reason but the demands of external forces and realites should they collide with the evangelical's world view.
     I am but a mere mortal. Who am I to complain about the will of the powerful?
      I think that evangelicals can love people from many walks of life, but the issue of respect is a lot tougher.
     As a contrast, my pastor has a regular job, and is not beholden to church authorities for a living. To be a dynamically effective actor in the world of men, a certain material autonomy appears to be required for a pastor to follow the way of God. To me, the way of God does not get everybody's souls saved for them so much as it ends slavery, homelessness, hunger, and rejection of people for what they are in the way of biological makeup. People are what they are biologically, and so far medicine has not been sufficiently clever to make people fit the proscribed norm as set by the powerful.
     If I had a choice between being a Shetland Pony or an Evangelical, I don't know which I'd choose.

Last edited by Platonicmonic (2010-02-27 18:39:26)

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#491 2010-02-28 21:23:11

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

My pastor says she would much prefer to be full time pastor. It seems she is more willing to compass a Christian institution than I feel I am.
      The fact that I have a huge number of relatives that all belong to the church denomination I grew up in has much potential for complication.
      My dad, though a member of EFI for many years did not use quirky memetic "God talk" at all. He didn't go in for the verbal equivalent of the secret handshake. My dad was human. I have been thinking about him a fair amount.

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#492 2010-03-01 20:32:07

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

This youtube video is in Chaluba language.
It has a line, "the bird builds it's nest bit by bit."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWhRAfdehM
Homesick expatriates might decide to walk home if
that's what it takes!

Last edited by Platonicmonic (2010-03-01 20:37:24)

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#493 2010-03-02 20:19:26

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

Today, I thought about Jaye Kyzmet most of the day. I think Jaye sought love and trust in other people, but doubted people a lot. I often feel very similarly, but my heart can hold the friendship of other people enough so I don't feel I'm without hope. It's your connection to others that saves you from despair.

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#494 2010-03-05 17:52:35

peggyparsons
Administrator
Registered: 2005-05-14
Posts: 601

Re: Iconoclastery

http://obedienttothelight.blogspot.com/ … -life.html

a post you might find interesting, Tim

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#495 2010-03-06 16:11:34

morningbear
Member
From: Salem, OR
Registered: 2005-07-10
Posts: 55
Website

Re: Iconoclastery

I am still wrapping my head around the "sinecure" in your first post.  Having parents that enjoyed the finer-things-in-life, I was given to believe that I would have that governmental post that received inherent respect and would assure me my parents lifestyle.  Never happen.  I had more responsibility when I was a 20 year old in the Air Force, than I ever hoped to have in the following 40 years.  Everything worth doing requires a commitment to responsible action.  The problem is that there are those that covet what you have and if they cannot have the perks of responsibility they often try to ruin it for you.  I have always admired people that could make things with machines.  I enjoyed the year or so that I worked for a scenery shop in Santa Barbara.  I enjoyed every show I crewed and built sets for.  Now, I lack the ability to go back and learn to run and maintain complicated machines, but I am enjoying my new lapidary class.  Fortunately art does not require exact measurements, most of the time, so I am okay with my grinding and polishing.  I feel good about having peers and mentors to talk to, it was something lacking before I started going to the senior center on the North side of Salem.  Sitting and playing cards would put me to sleep, but doing things with others is so invigorating.


Walk the Blessed Way
Swim the Blessed River
Soar in the Blessed Light
Morningbear

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#496 2010-03-07 17:09:00

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1FQmUQ1-mM
Grand Theft Congo - DRC

Bear,
      This lapidary stuff is a whole lot more involved than I ever imagined. Shopping a gift for Marie revealed the tip of the iceberg to me where the variety of gems are concerned. I had no idea. Some gems that come from South Africa are perhaps not "blood gems," mined by slaves.
      There are apparently gems that come from war zones. The trade in gems is not a small matter. The lapidary stuff is not a small matter. The reason for this is that excellent jewelry can be made using stones that look wonderful after they have been "lapidized."
Tim

Last edited by Platonicmonic (2010-03-07 18:35:22)

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#497 2010-03-08 17:23:24

peggyparsons
Administrator
Registered: 2005-05-14
Posts: 601

Re: Iconoclastery

Stones and jewels, as "bloody" as they can be, are not the big problem.
If we wanted to really go Woolman on this issue, we would have to all lay down our cell phones.  You can't make a cell phone without coltan. Most of the world's coltan is  in the east of the DRC. It is all disastrously "bloody"

but for a more uplifting (literally) picture, you will want to look at the video link on my blog today.

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#498 2010-03-08 17:38:32

peggyparsons
Administrator
Registered: 2005-05-14
Posts: 601

Re: Iconoclastery

Re: the grand theft Congo video.

It is a mistake to think that the Kabila government in Kinshasa has any direct control over these soldiers. Local generals do exactly as they please, and pocket the proceeds personally.  They are like many personal armies. There is little communication and less control over these soldiers. Consider them mercenaries. The low levels soldiers you see are not much better off than the miners. They probably have not been paid for months either.  They carry guns, and commit much mayhem and violence, but they do not benefit  personally from their larceny either.

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#499 2010-03-08 21:35:35

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

I appreciate the additional information about the miners in the Congo. It seems there will always be hunks of info I need but don't have. Such is the way of things.

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#500 2010-03-15 21:36:08

Platonicmonic
Member
From: Hillsboro, OR
Registered: 2005-06-14
Posts: 637

Re: Iconoclastery

Been sick as a dog with a cold. These "colds" seem like the very plague to me. Was out of it and showed up to church an hour late. Pathetic enough.
      People must have spent a lot of time in the library in decades past. I find people publishing articles they wrote 25 and 30 years ago now on the internet. One paper I read recently went to great and patient length to explain how St. Paul's and Jesus' teachings diverge in approach to a great degree. The article in essence said that
if Jesus' teachings are held to be the legit voice of the Christian religion, probably St. Paul should be allowed to fall into disuse. Be it all as it may, the Bible keeps getting thinner and thinner.
      Perhaps doing as churches do now is really the only way. They simply ignore parts of the Bible they don't find useful.
      Pointing out that ancient religions are mostly gingerbread with a core of truth within might be stating the obvious, but in the real world I think it will have to be enough. I am willing to alllow that a lot of times, the truth is more trouble than it's worth. Being too much of a stickler makes a man a religious nutball or an atheist for all his earnest trouble. I think atheism is a heavy backpack to carry, and nutballitis is no picnic.

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